"What is Faith?" My perspective
The words for faith translated in scripture can also be translated as trust, firmness, belief. Faith is not something that you can possess like you can have a house or have an apple. Faith is something you 'have' by doing, or in the words of my dictionary "to have" in this sense is to "exhibit in action." The word faith today is often used in other ways; for instance, 'having faith' is often equated with being a Christian, and 'the faith' could refer to a particular set of beliefs.
Understanding the concept of faith is important. I think that many people when asked the question, "Do you have faith?" answer "yes" because they think they ought to and don't want to either disappoint others or don't want to bring attention to themselves. They would feel stupid or embarassed if they were to say, "I'm not sure, what is faith?"
I have a neighbor who is the almost 40 y.o. daughter of a now retired presbyterian minister. She was a preachers kid all her life. Several years ago she decided to leave her dad's church and go to a different one in the area. The new church is more active in helping the community and participating in missions. They enjoy studying the bible, and members actually seem to care about each other. Some members also 'move in the spirit' speaking in tongues, giving prophecies, being slain in the spirit, etc. Some of them have taking trips to the "Toronto Vineyard Church," which is basically a huge gathering of people expecting or hoping for some spiritual manifestation to strike them. She wants what they seem to have. She wants it so much that its heart breaking to watch her sway with her hands uplifted, petitioning God to send his spirit on her. Her self-image is now wrapped up in whether she has or does not have one of these spiritual experiences. She thinks she just has to have "more faith" and it will happen. Eventually, she wanted so much for an experience that she began to act as if she were, but her facial expression of deep pain shows this is not the case. Her obsession with seeking the spiritual experience is eating her away inside.
One day a few of the members delivered her husband of his demons (he has bipolar disorder). His condition had been stable for over 15 years. Because he and his wife believed he had been delivered, he stopped taking his medication. Within a week he was in the hospital because he became severely manic. The 'prophetess' who began this deliverance had told them that this was an attack of the devil, and if they stood firm (had faith) it would pass. He is back on medication and they are left thinking that they didn't have 'enough faith.'
Faith isn't something that can be measured by how magical you seem to be or what miracles you experience. Simon Magus wanted the spirit and would give money for it, but Peter rebuked him for trying to buy God's gift. Trying to acquire spiritual gifts by praying just the right way or believing just the right way is no different than offering money. In fact those who are seeking the gifts often do offer money. Willing yourself to 'have more faith' so that God will bless and love you more, is an attempt to earn salvation.
Israel eperienced many miracles at the exodus, not because they had a lot of faith, but because YHVH wanted to show them and all Egypt that He alone is God and he keeps his promises. The fact that they went straight back to idolatry demonstrates that they were not trusting in YHVH, yet YHVH still gave them manna to eat and gave them water in a dry place. He saved them from their enemies, moving the earth and sea not because of their faith, but because of His faithfulness. Yet after all He did for them they feared man more than YHVH and so refused to enter the promised land to take possession of it. Those who spurned YHVH through their disobedience to His instructions were not permitted to enter.
Salvation is by grace, not faith. Faith is our response to His grace, the acceptance of His gift to us. Everything we do and say (our work) is an expression of faith. Without grace we cannot be saved, without faith we do not receive His grace; without obedience we have no faith. Hebrews chapter eleven gives a long list of people who by faith walked in obedience. Simply put, our faith is our trust in action.
Understanding the concept of faith is important. I think that many people when asked the question, "Do you have faith?" answer "yes" because they think they ought to and don't want to either disappoint others or don't want to bring attention to themselves. They would feel stupid or embarassed if they were to say, "I'm not sure, what is faith?"
I have a neighbor who is the almost 40 y.o. daughter of a now retired presbyterian minister. She was a preachers kid all her life. Several years ago she decided to leave her dad's church and go to a different one in the area. The new church is more active in helping the community and participating in missions. They enjoy studying the bible, and members actually seem to care about each other. Some members also 'move in the spirit' speaking in tongues, giving prophecies, being slain in the spirit, etc. Some of them have taking trips to the "Toronto Vineyard Church," which is basically a huge gathering of people expecting or hoping for some spiritual manifestation to strike them. She wants what they seem to have. She wants it so much that its heart breaking to watch her sway with her hands uplifted, petitioning God to send his spirit on her. Her self-image is now wrapped up in whether she has or does not have one of these spiritual experiences. She thinks she just has to have "more faith" and it will happen. Eventually, she wanted so much for an experience that she began to act as if she were, but her facial expression of deep pain shows this is not the case. Her obsession with seeking the spiritual experience is eating her away inside.
One day a few of the members delivered her husband of his demons (he has bipolar disorder). His condition had been stable for over 15 years. Because he and his wife believed he had been delivered, he stopped taking his medication. Within a week he was in the hospital because he became severely manic. The 'prophetess' who began this deliverance had told them that this was an attack of the devil, and if they stood firm (had faith) it would pass. He is back on medication and they are left thinking that they didn't have 'enough faith.'
Faith isn't something that can be measured by how magical you seem to be or what miracles you experience. Simon Magus wanted the spirit and would give money for it, but Peter rebuked him for trying to buy God's gift. Trying to acquire spiritual gifts by praying just the right way or believing just the right way is no different than offering money. In fact those who are seeking the gifts often do offer money. Willing yourself to 'have more faith' so that God will bless and love you more, is an attempt to earn salvation.
Israel eperienced many miracles at the exodus, not because they had a lot of faith, but because YHVH wanted to show them and all Egypt that He alone is God and he keeps his promises. The fact that they went straight back to idolatry demonstrates that they were not trusting in YHVH, yet YHVH still gave them manna to eat and gave them water in a dry place. He saved them from their enemies, moving the earth and sea not because of their faith, but because of His faithfulness. Yet after all He did for them they feared man more than YHVH and so refused to enter the promised land to take possession of it. Those who spurned YHVH through their disobedience to His instructions were not permitted to enter.
Salvation is by grace, not faith. Faith is our response to His grace, the acceptance of His gift to us. Everything we do and say (our work) is an expression of faith. Without grace we cannot be saved, without faith we do not receive His grace; without obedience we have no faith. Hebrews chapter eleven gives a long list of people who by faith walked in obedience. Simply put, our faith is our trust in action.
posted by fencekicker | 9:54 AM
11 Comments:
Faith isn't something that can be measured by how magical you seem to be or what miracles you experience.
How then do you explain the following scripture?
Matthew 17
14 When they came to the crowd, a man came up to Jesus, falling on his knees before Him and saying,
15 "Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is a lunatic and is very ill; for he often falls into the fire and often into the water.
16 "I brought him to Your disciples, and they could not cure him."
17 And Jesus answered and said, "You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to Me."
18 And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured at once.
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not drive it out?"
20 And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.
21 ["But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting."]
Didn’t Christ say above that the reason His disciples were unable to drive out the demon out of the boy, was because their faith was too small. Didn’t Christ therefore ascribe a measurement to their faith by virtue of what they supernaturally were not able to do? How then can you say what you said above?
Simon Magus wanted the spirit and would give money for it, but Peter rebuked him for trying to buy God's gift. Trying to acquire spiritual gifts by praying just the right way or believing just the right way is no different than offering money.
How did you come to the above conclusion? How is trying to purchase spiritual gifts using money the same as asking God for them (and believing that you will receive them) - which God requires you to do (i.e. have faith) for the sake of your salvation?
Mark 11
24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
John 15
7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.
What do you think Christ meant when He said seek first the kingdom of God? He meant that you should seek after God’s mysteries and gifts above everything else. Further, who do you think God will have the highest regard for? The man seeks after Gods finest gifts, or the one who is content with just getting by (1 Corinthians 12:31, Revelation 3:16)?
Willing yourself to 'have more faith' so that God will bless and love you more, is an attempt to earn salvation.
Did Christ not suggest to His disciples in Matthew 17:20-21 that they need to do a huge amount of praying in order to obtain the capacity to do great things via faith? How then can you say that this very exercise is an attempt by someone to earn his salvation?
Salvation is by grace, not faith.
Please note the following scripture:
Ephesians 2
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Doesn’t the scripture above say that you obtain salvation through faith? In other words faith is the means by which someone obtains salvation? Grace allows salvation to be possible, but salvation can only be claimed through the process of having faith.
Everything we do and say (our work) is an expression of faith. Without grace we cannot be saved, without faith we do not receive His grace; without obedience we have no faith. Hebrews chapter eleven gives a long list of people who by faith walked in obedience. Simply put, our faith is our trust in action.
Please realize that every godly behavior is the fruit that arises as a result of our practicing asking God for things and believing that we receive them – i.e. our practice of having faith (Mark 11:22-24).
As I indicated here, a person must persist at asking and believing up until his faith is strong enough for him to obtain the things he asks for. This is consistent with Matthew 17:20-21. Now as a practical matter, if someone prays for someone and declares him healed when in fact he is not healed, this does not violate what Christ said. Further, a person has no business telling or suggesting to people that someone is completely healed when he is not.
Lastly, when someone sets out to accomplish something via faith, he has to keep in mind that he must muster enough faith to see what he wants come to bear, and this usually takes a lot of praying. Further, some things may require years of praying before fully coming to bear. This is just the reality of things, and you must live your life with the above in mind.
The following scripture is not from the Bible, but it is valid and it underscores the point I made above:
Essene Gospel of Peace
"Renew yourselves and fast. For I tell you truly, that Satan and his plagues may only be cast out by -fasting and by prayer. Go by yourself and fast alone, and show your fasting to no man. The living God shall see it and great shall be your reward. And fast till Beelzebub and all his evils depart from you, and all the angels of our Earthly Mother come and serve you. For I tell you truly, except you fast, you shall never be freed from the power of Satan and from all diseases that come from Satan. Fast and pray fervently, seeking the power of the living God for your healing. While you fast, eschew the Sons of Men and seek our Earthly Mother's angels, for he that seeks shall find.
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And when you come before the face of God, the devils of Satan bear witness against you with your deed, and God sees your sins written in the book of your body and of your spirit and is sad in his heart. But if you repent of your sins, and by fasting and prayer you seek the angels of God, then each day that you continue to fast and to pray, God's angels blot out one year of your evil deeds from the book of your body and your spirit.
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And Jesus departed, saying: "I will come again to all who persist in prayer and fasting tAl the seventh day. Peace be with you.
P. Douglas,
It would be easier for me to respond if you asked one question at a time, lol.
~Faith can't be measured by the miraculous:
Yes, faith can move mountains. Moses trusted YHVH when He told him to lift his staff over the sea. The sea parted so the Israelites could cross on dry land because Moses had faith and obeyed. But, the faith of a person should not be measured by whether or not we move mountains. Moses moved the sea because YHVH told him to, not because he wanted it to happen (although I am certain he was glad for the command).
~Matthew 17
Instead of rejoicing and praising YHVH after Yahshua sent away the demon in Matthew 17:20, they go to him privately. Putzing around, worrying about their status and power, they ask why they weren't able to drive it away. Their focus was on themselves and what they did right/wrong, rather than on YHVH. So, Yahshua says, "because of the littleness of your faith."
~Trying to buy the spirit:
Believing that you have to pray in some special or perfect way or enough times to acquire spiritual gifts is an attempt to use spiritual currency to buy the gifts. There is nothing wrong with praying for gifts. But, believing that you have to pray a special way is an attempt to give God spiritual currency. The fact that someone is praying at all is a testimony of their faith. If one didn't believe that YHVH could/would grant their request, one would not have prayed at all.
~Who do you think God will have the highest regard for?
Our concern should not be with being the highest in the kingdom. Instead we should be concerned with loving YHVH with all our hearts, minds and souls. Those who seek the Kingdom, seek to serve the King, not to be served by Him. Many will say "did we not prophesy in your name and.. cast out demons and.. perform many miracles? And he will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness." (Matt. 7:22-23)
~by grace through faith:
Right, YHVH gives us grace, and we receive it through faith. However, if He expected us to have faith first, then we would have earned or paid for salvation. But, grace by definition is a gift from God that we do not deserve. Faith itself is a work.
~You said:
"Please realize that every godly behavior is the fruit that arises as a result of our practicing asking God for things and believing that we receive them – i.e. our practice of having faith"
Godly behavior is the fruit of trusting in and living for God. People who live for God often pray to Him as well. However, the more we are concerned with having enough faith (therefore enough good works), the less faith we really have.
A mans horse gets stuck in a barb-wire fence. One neighbor comes along and sees the horse. He feels bad for the horse and stands there praying over and over for it to be freed from the fence. Another neighbor soon comes along and upon seeing the horse runs off to fetch a pair of wiresnips; he then goes to the horse with comforting words while he cuts the fence away. The first man thinks to himself how wonderful it is that YHVH answered his prayer. The second leads the horse back to his neighbors place and helps his neighbor bandage the horse's wounds. Which man acted in a godly way?
But, the faith of a person should not be measured by whether or not we move mountains. Moses moved the sea because YHVH told him to, not because he wanted it to happen (although I am certain he was glad for the command).
I don’t get it. Didn’t Christ do precisely what you said we are not supposed to do in Matthew 17:20? If a man is justified through the practice of having faith (Romans 3:28), doesn’t that mean that his actions are righteous? Therefore if a man does something via faith, doesn’t that mean that the man behaves righteously? How then can you suggest that a man can have faith and sin at the same time? Don’t you know when you practice having faith, that your will and God’s will become one, therefore you desire to do and do the things God wants you to do?
Philippians 2
13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
Instead of rejoicing and praising YHVH after Yahshua sent away the demon in Matthew 17:20, they go to him privately. Putzing around, worrying about their status and power, they ask why they weren't able to drive it away. Their focus was on themselves and what they did right/wrong, rather than on YHVH. So, Yahshua says, "because of the littleness of your faith."
No. Reread Matthew 17:20-21 above. The disciples asked Christ why they were unable to cast the demon out of the boy, and Christ said it was because of the littleness of their faith. Christ did not say or suggest that the reason they were unable to cast the demon out of the boy was because they wanted to, and that this in turn was indicative of their faith being small. Things transpired rather, the way I described above. Further, it would not have made any sense for Christ to have rebuked the disciples for wanting to cast out the demon out of the boy, when in Matthew 10:1-10 (verse 8 in particular) Christ commanded them to do the same.
Believing that you have to pray in some special or perfect way or enough times to acquire spiritual gifts is an attempt to use spiritual currency to buy the gifts. There is nothing wrong with praying for gifts. But, believing that you have to pray a special way is an attempt to give God spiritual currency. The fact that someone is praying at all is a testimony of their faith. If one didn't believe that YHVH could/would grant their request, one would not have prayed at all.
I don’t get it again, regarding praying “enough times to acquire spiritual gifts”, what you are saying directly contradicts what Christ said in Matthew 17:20-21 where he told his disciples that their capacity to drive the demon out of the boy could only be accomplished through lots of praying.
Regarding “believing that you have to pray in some special or perfect way or enough times to acquire spiritual gifts is an attempt to use spiritual currency to buy the gifts”. What is wrong with this? That is precisely what you are supposed to do.
Revelation 3
18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Regarding getting by vs. striving to know God’s greatest mysteries and gifts:
1 Corinthians 9
24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.
Pistis Sophia - Book Two
Chapter 100
"For this cause, therefore, herald to the whole race of men, saying: Cease not to seek day and night, until ye find the purifying mysteries; and say unto the race of men: Renounce the whole world and the whole matter therein. For he who buyeth and selleth in the world and he who eateth and drinketh of its matter and who liveth in all its cares and in all its associations, amasseth other additional matters to the rest of his matter, because this whole world and all therein and all its associations are material refuse [pl.], and they will make enquiry of every one concerning his purity.
Our concern should not be with being the highest in the kingdom. Instead we should be concerned with loving YHVH with all our hearts, minds and souls. Those who seek the Kingdom, seek to serve the King, not to be served by Him. Many will say "did we not prophesy in your name and.. cast out demons and.. perform many miracles? And he will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness." (Matt. 7:22-23)
1 Corinthians 9:24 which I quoted above, note that we should in fact strive to be the highest in the kingdom. Remember, every godly quality (which are all forms of righteousness) is given you via faith (Romans 9:30) – including the capacity to love God. It follows therefore that the greater you are by virtue of your faith, the greater love you will have for God.
Regarding the people in Matthew 7:22-23, these people did in fact have not faith, or else they would have been saved. These people merely acted religiously.
Right, YHVH gives us grace, and we receive it through faith. However, if He expected us to have faith first, then we would have earned or paid for salvation. But, grace by definition is a gift from God that we do not deserve. Faith itself is a work.
The point of Ephesians 2:8-9, is that salvation is a gift made possible by grace, which you claim through the process of having faith. Salvation is not earned through direct works of righteousness. Whether you would like to characterize having faith as a work or not, is irrelevant. If you like, you could say, having faith is not a work which by itself merits you righteous: rather having faith is a work that you have to do, to qualify for salvation - made possible by grace.
Godly behavior is the fruit of trusting in and living for God. People who live for God often pray to Him as well. However, the more we are concerned with having enough faith (therefore enough good works), the less faith we really have.
Isn’t having faith in God by asking Him for things and believing that you will receive them, an act of “trusting and living for God” (Philippians 2:13)? And if having faith is the only means by which we can be saved, isn’t “trusting in and living for God” via faith the only legitimate way we can do so?
What is your foundation for asserting, “the more we are concerned with having enough faith (therefore enough good works), the less faith we really have”? If 1 Corinthians 9:24 says we are to approach salvation as a prize, in which each of us tries to win a race, doesn’t that mean that we should all strive to be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? How then can you say doing so shows that we have less faith?
A mans horse gets stuck in a barb-wire fence. One neighbor comes along and sees the horse. He feels bad for the horse and stands there praying over and over for it to be freed from the fence. Another neighbor soon comes along and upon seeing the horse runs off to fetch a pair of wiresnips; he then goes to the horse with comforting words while he cuts the fence away. The first man thinks to himself how wonderful it is that YHVH answered his prayer. The second leads the horse back to his neighbors place and helps his neighbor bandage the horse's wounds. Which man acted in a godly way?
If God is a practical God who moves us to desire and act according to His will (Philippians 2:13), don’t you think that someone who has faith would be inclined to and would actually physically help the cow (possibly along with quietly praying for the cow)?
... sorry. I meant the horse.
P. Douglas,
Really, the point I am attempting to make is not about prayer itself, but about the motivation behind the prayer. Yahshua consistantly pointed out that those who were seeking to be the greatest in heaven were the least in the kingdom, and those who are out helping their neighbor and choosing God's will over their own will are the greatest.
What you are attempting to do is to make YHVH to give in and perform your will. It appears that you do not believe that YHVH knows what you need before you ask Him.
You have mentioned in one of your many writings (whether on my blog or on yours) the story of the persistent widow in Luke 18. Notice that the widow must petition the UNRIGHTEOUS judge over and over again. Do you think that YHVH is unrighteous? the same story goes on to say that GOD will bring about justice QUICKLY. Yes, the elect were calling out day and night, but they did not need to. God did not decide to help them because they prayed enough times; He helped them because He is just. Btw, this story is not about spiritual gifts at all, it is about justice.
Notice the next story in Luke 18. The pharisee is trying to tell God how he is so great because he has faith correctly, fasting more than others, etc. But, God instead is shown to exalt (reward) the tax collector who came to him in humility.
In Matthew 6:7-8 Yahshua says: And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. So DO NOT BE LIKE THEM; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
When some of the disciples ask Yahshua for places of honor in the Kingdom, he told them: "whoever wishes to become great amoung you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:26-28)
You are seeking and teaching others to seek greatness in the Kingdom. This is not what we are to be seeking. We are to be seeking YHVH's will and serving Him who loves us by doing His will. Instead of asking Him to do things for us and give gifts to us, we need to be asking Him what we can do to serve Him.
The problem with your teaching is not that praying is wrong. The problem is the motivation behind the prayer. If you think that you can gain God's favor by praying until He gives you what YOU want, then you don't believe in YHVH's grace at all; instead you are trusting in your own powers of persuasion.
I asked you earlier to refrain from leaving such long comments. You're comments are longer than my original post (and probably my post and comments combined). This is a problem. If you have so much to say, you need to publish it in your own blog, not mine.
You may continue to comment on my blog if you are able to make brief comments (about 100 words or less). If you have more than that to say regarding one of my posts, you should put it on your own blog, and leave an invitation to me to read it on your blog.
I do not like to delete any valid comments, however, if you cannot limit yourself, I will help to limit you by deleting comments that are too long. You should not attempt to circumvent my limits by making multiple brief comments that add up to one big comment; attempts to do this will also be deleted.
I don't mind your presence here, but you cannot proceed to spend your entire days watching and typing in my blog. Peace be with you.
Okay. I'll just leave you with this: it is the act if asking and believing which makes us righteous and hence which purfies our motivation. We don't approach God first with pure motivations (since we are initially sinners) and then have faith. Remember all our purity comes from the process of having faith, which in turn purifies every aspect about ourselves.
I must I spend a lot of time on my computer and on many sites on the Internet. I won't be spending much (if any more) time here.
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